Important Questions
Q: What is the literal meaning of “Dalit”?
Dalit is a Sanskrit word from the root dal, meaning “broken” or “crushed”. Dr B R Ambedkar or Jotiba Phule (1827-1890, a social reformer and revolutionary) are variously credited with using the word Dalit for untouchables, as broken victims of the caste system.
In the 1970s, the Dalit Panther Movement (Maharashtra, India) adopted the term Dalit. Today, the word is widely used, especially by Dalit people themselves.
Q: If it wasn’t for the Guru Granth Sahib then Guru Ravidas’s legacy and bani wouldn’t have survived?
This question is erroneous and is sadly based on ignorance; there is a larger corpus of shabads that have been preserved independent of the Guru Granth Sahib. In total Guru Ravidas’s bani is based primarily upon twelve manuscript sources which date from AD 1582 to AD 1698. The manuscripts come from four traditions. First, a non-sectarian tradition represented by the Fatehpur Manuscript of AD 1582. Second the Dadu Panthi tradition, represented by eight Manuscript Source of AD 1636 to AD 1698. Third, a Rajasthani Nath Siddha tradition represented by two Manuscript Source of AD 1660 and AD 1681, and fourth, the Punjabi tradition as represented by the Adi Granth of AD 1603-4.
Q: Are we Sikhs or Hindus?
We can be one or the other, or we can be neither. This identity conundrum isn’t only just confined to the chamar caste, for example there are more Hindu and Muslim Jats than there are Sikh Jats. Similarly there are also Muslim, Buddhist and Christian Chamars, but over the years we are finding more and more Chamars embracing their Ravidassia identity as they have found that despite embracing other religions they have not been able to escape the stigma of caste.
Q: There is a strong argument that by strengthening your own caste identity you are inadvertently supporting the caste system, do you agree?
In short no! Look at the Afro-Americans in America. They are challenging white hegemony, not by denying their blackness, but precisely by stressing it, by cultivating pride in being black. This is also what we are trying to do. We need to strengthen our own caste identities in order to counter casteism or caste oppression. We have to take pride in being Chamars. We have to recover our own histories, and our own stories of caste struggle. Any community which forgets its past, its identity, is doomed to slavery.
Q: How do Dalits fare against the poverty line?
The poorest people in the world subsist on an income of less than one US dollar a day. (The World Bank “extreme economic poverty” line for India is set at US$1.08 a day.) Roughly half the Dalit population lives at or below this level of income; compared with about one-third of the total population of India.
Q: What is a scheduled caste? …a scheduled tribe?
The British listed the poorest (principally Dalit) sub-castes in 1935, creating detailed lists of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes.
The 1948 Indian constitution, thanks to its architect Dr B R Ambedkar, reinforced this classification, for a system of affirmative action called reservation. The concept was that these measures would help the poorest to escape poverty and oppression.
Q: What is “reservation”?
Reservation is an attempt by the Indian national government to redress past discrimination. The constitution reserves 22.5% of national government jobs, state legislature seats, seats in the lower house of the national parliament and higher education places for members of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes.
Unfortunately, this policy has not been implemented in full. Less than half the national government quota had been filled in total in 1998 and less than 15% of “reserved” public sector jobs. An unspoken policy discriminates in favour of upper castes, particularly Brahmins. Dalit representation in university teaching posts is less than 1%.
The Ravidassia Community 
JAI GURUDEV DHAN GURUDEV
JE JEENA HAI TA MARNA SIKHO
November 29, 2010 at 12:40 am
Jai Guru Dev Dhan Guru Dev
If We follow it we cannot die.We should live and show our religion as a Ravidassia.
Thxx
January 4, 2011 at 4:23 pm
Here’s a question to all Chamars…how many of you would approve of one of your family marrying outside their caste?
Jeevan
March 7, 2011 at 7:17 am
Wow, that is an insightful question. Many Ravidassia’s in our community are facing this issue today. This would be an interesting and controversial question for a poll. Thank you for your contribution. I will add this as a poll to the front page of the website as soon as possible.
March 15, 2011 at 9:56 pm
Sir, what is bad if anybody marrying an other cast?
January 10, 2012 at 7:15 pm
Lately i have seen alot of Ravidassias in areas wearing a Kura, i have no problem with this of course my concern is these youngsters that are doing so are not doing it for the right reason but to hide their identity ( caste ) from others maybe from Schools Uni Colleges or even work places because they feel they will not be accepted.
April 11, 2011 at 11:21 am
I currently attend a California University and I also have recognized this issue. Many young Ravidassias are wearing Karas to avoid discrimination. This has come down to a question of ethics and reveals an insecurity in the young population.
April 12, 2011 at 9:17 pm
indeed i even see it in my own gudhwara and clearly see the youngsters wearing kura because they have jatt mates and feel they have to do be part of Sikhism with them as they feel should they say they are ravidassias they will be discriminated against we have many issues in Sikhism alot of contradiction in this religion the guru granth clearly states equality but it doesnt seem to be sinking into all these peoples heads, we should be proud of being a ravidassia and understand what ravidass done for us and not to fear other castes ie jatts discriminate us, one my friends being a jatt didnt even know who ravidass was i educated him and explained he met guru nanak and so on he was shocked its vital us ravidassia increase our knowledge so we can fight back ( knowledge is power )
April 13, 2011 at 1:53 pm
Yes, I agree. Besides, if a friend discriminates against you once they learn you are a chamar, that person should have never been a friend in the first place. You had a true friend indeed. He is your friend because he admires you as a person not because you are from a specific caste or creed.
April 14, 2011 at 2:56 am
Correct I agree with your comment. Is it true Ravidass Bani has been split from the guru granth sahib? I know there was some issues happening over the last couple years? I do disagree with this happening though.
April 14, 2011 at 10:00 am
I disagree with the wearing of Kara to hide our caste. I am a ravidassia/chamaar and all my friends know so as well. Just because we wear a Kara doesn’t mean we are asahmed of our caste. How many older ravisassias wear a turban only to the gurudwara, are they hiding their caste aswell? Not everyone who wears a Kara and turban are baptised, there are so many sikhs of different castes high and low that wear karas and turbans that shave, drink alcohol and don’t practise sikhism, are they hiding their caste aswell ? The answer is no. Out of the 1000s of sikhs I know personally, I probably only know 1 at most that is baptised. Nobody in my genaration has had a problem with caste it seems to be everyone who is ‘highly educated’ of these castes that bring up the differences. Also, just because we are chamaar and we go to gurdwaharas other than ravidassia gurdwaharas doesn’t mean we are hiding our caste, it is because we don’t want to involve in seperation of castes when we are actually all the same. If other castes are doing their part and not discriminating why should we bring up our caste and teach them differences ?
April 17, 2011 at 2:11 pm
Valid point however I never said everyone I said some people! Its evident they are wearing it for the wrong reasons however I don’t for once think everyone is doing this for the wrong reasons. Unfortunately we are stuck in a rut from Hinduism where caste initiated and are fighting to get out of this identity they have put on us times have moved on unfortunately Sikhism has been ruined by the likes of some we have clearly done everything but what the Gurus taught.
April 21, 2011 at 10:54 am
You guys are very “lost”. You guys have made religion a “khed” today. Shame on all wanting to leave Guru Granth Sahib.
June 14, 2011 at 7:20 pm
I feel sad that by leaving the Guru Granth Sahib and Sikhism the ravidassia community has reverted back to being another hindu caste and hindu sect, because this is how others will see it. The RSS and other Brahminical forces are extremely happy with this as the new ‘ravidassia community’ has done their work for Brahminism . In history this is how new castes have appeared by breaking away.. The most they have been able to achieve is a separate caste. It would be far better for the while ravidassia community to embrace khalsa sikhism and lift up the sword to those who try to oppress them and achieve respect by being part of sikh community like the Batras, ramgharias, ghumars etc all of whom are also from low castes. Remember we are from a community that skinned animals and capable of skinning oppressors as well. If our ancestors were capable of skinnig a bull in 10 minutes then we are very capable of skinning a man alive in ten seconds. If you have a sword in your hands I dont think anybody would dare to say anything to you with disrespect. The community needs courage and confidence the sort of spirit Guru Govind Singhji wanted for us. . This will not come to us just by running away from what was created for us but by acquiring political and economic power . We are also forgetting that Sikhism was created by the Gurus for the lower castes because Guru Nanak loved ‘lalo’ not ‘bhago’. He himself said he wantedf to be with the low castes and not with the high castes. Today Sikhism is in the hands of Bhago, particularly the jats. If lower caste sikhs are facing descrimination from the higher (bhago) caste the lalo castes need to organise them selves and take back what the Gurus created for them. Remember Guru Nanak him self was blessed by Satguru Ravidass, Satguru Kabir, Satguru Sadna and Satguru sain, who were the ‘sadus’ Guru Nanak fed and from whom Guru Nanak received the ‘Sacha Sauda’ . Guru Nanak was part of that Bakhta Movement, which he translated to the new noble Religion of Sikhism which embraced the teachings of all the satgurus. He took their teaching to new level. Sikhism and Guru Granth sahib is ours and does not belong to just any one community.
July 25, 2011 at 12:06 pm
100% correct who ever running this
site should put this on top and show this to your master dera ballan
November 7, 2011 at 8:43 pm
You present an interesting perspective. However, I have one question: Why must people resort to violence against their own fellow human beings? There are peaceful methods of solving issues nowadays.
November 17, 2011 at 12:54 am
Ravidassia website is obviously run from New York, USA evidenced by the time zone. I have sent few comments at various sections from Birmingham, England, UK and the time zone is 5 hours behind us. Ravidassia I agree with you. Ideally violence against our fellow human beings is wrong. I am not advocating violence per se . What I am advocating is that self defence is no offence.Even ‘nowadays’ our people are subjected to violence by the oppressors. In India today we read reports of atrocities being committed agains our brothers and sisters on daily basis and we feel helpless here in the west, There is nothing wrong with the victims arming them to defend their self respect and dignity. This is a human right. Without weapons to protect ourselves our brothers and sisters are goats waiting to be slaughtered, by people who enjoyed the right to have and use weapons according to Manusmirti. This is why Guru Govind Singh said to the shudras to worship iron as shudra were denied right to own and hold weapons. Manu took away the sword from the hands of a shudra and then Guru Govind Singh came and reinstated it. Turned shudras, in to lions from goats. He said from today the shudra will fight with the sword, sleep with the sword and die with the sword .(ie it will be with him at all times). Even in the United States every citizen has a constitutional right to own a gun. When the others are prepared to use peaceful methods to solving issues use them. Then use put your weapons down and talk……..
December 11, 2011 at 5:30 am
Then you put your weapons down and talk…….
December 11, 2011 at 5:34 am
yes..well said
June 12, 2013 at 11:47 pm
i totaly agree with you guru granth sahib do not only belong to jatt is belong to us as will
this amritbani book is creation of dera ballan only . dera ballan is private dera . that dera does not represent whole ravidassia community . my family is proud chamar family never afraid from any jatt infact had fights with jatt’s we live on our land( motor tai) got our own guns , tractors, jeep, safari, bullet, whole family wear turban’s all jatts respect us what we are. people wanting to leave granth sahib are brain washed by dera ballan.
November 5, 2011 at 3:16 pm
Totally correct. the Dera ballan has divided and cofused the ravidassia community. dera ballan and their sants capitalised on the event in Austria for their own agenda. They have no mandate to speak for the whole of the ravidassia sikh community.
December 10, 2011 at 11:13 am
My dear it is very nice that you family is proud chamar family never afraid from any jatt infact had fights with jatt’s you live on your land( motor tai) got your own guns , tractors, jeep, safari, bullet, whole family wear turban’s all jatts respect you. are. But my dear will you please see the whole community? Nobody change his religion unless he is forced to do so. Do you know we people are being discriminated in the fields of education, economy as well as social. Why you had fights with jatt’s? You will be shocked if you go through the reports of National Human Rights Commission and SC/ST Commission how the members of our community (including other dalits) are being mentally and physically tortured by the so called upper caste. We are being denied for justice and for all other opportunities with the criminal conspiracy due to the reasons of our caste. Our members are beaten, gang raped, looted, shooted, killed, burnt alive and face sexual harassment every day. FIR is not lodged in the police stations and public prosecutor in the court is not interested in their cases. Dear Punjab is a rich state but think about the community which is in the whole country. You please go to other state of the country and see the condition of our people. Let the people decide whether they want new religion or not.
Jai Guru Ravidas Ji, Jai Bheem.
I am proud to be a member of Chamar Community.
May 31, 2012 at 9:28 pm
Jim, People won’t admit that they want to be led but unconsciously that is exlatcy what their actions are stating! Why do people read product reviews or ask sales people to recommend a solution’ for their problem? It’s because they want to be told what to do by someone they feel knows better. But it still boils down to what I really want because sometimes I’ll rather you ask me (get my permission) to make a move than tell me (showing me direction).
March 11, 2013 at 9:39 pm
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March 15, 2013 at 3:14 am
Bhahut pharne ki zarurat hai .unchi post par pahunch ke jawab do inko.jahan koi hamare logon ke sath nahi.apne himmat kudh bano.aankho main aankhe dal kar bat karna sikho.100saal bujdil bankar jine se aacha hai ,ek din sher ki jindagi jio, kiunki bejat aadmi ek pal main 100 baar marta hai.
December 28, 2011 at 12:23 am
write in proper english what you talking about
February 12, 2012 at 8:06 pm
Right brother. Shiksha ko hatiyar banao, kadam badhakar chalte jao.
May 24, 2012 at 10:32 pm
jai gurudev dhan gurudev ji i like dis site
February 13, 2012 at 2:13 am
Me too!!!
February 13, 2012 at 10:29 pm
Jaikara Sat Guru Kanshi wale da,Bol Sacche Darbar KI Jai.
Jaikara Janju Dhari da’Bol Sacche Darbar ki jai.
March 8, 2012 at 12:48 am
although above discussion is going on some other way but i want to say that still our community is extremely backward and suffering under pathetic conditions . This is only because we have not been able to make our community aware and more importantly consistent enough to concede that in todays scenario only education is the single most way through which we can make a difference and earn good terms of trade with the society.
We must remember Ambedkar ji not only becoz he was our emancipatory leader but also consider the fact that he was a great intellectual and literate person by virtue of which he became the first law minister of free india. So the main point is whosoever is connected with this site should contribute to educate our children and fill them believe that besides growing spiritually its also important to grow in this materialistic world otherwise we would continue to face ostracism for the centuries to come. Moreover for this ostracism of our future generation we will be responsible because of our lenient behavior . Pls Pls toconsider this.
April 24, 2012 at 9:18 am
I agree we must strive to do well in all spheres of life particularly educationlly and economically. Our community need to have professionals such as doctors, lawyers etc as well as a successful business community. We must move away from ancesteral work unless you can turn it into a successfull leather manufacturing business that will make you very wealthy. We should also have the TATAs and Batas in our community. We must learn to think and be inspired and follow the examples of successfull people generally round the world. All actions start from thought process. So start imagining yourselves as successful in whatever you want to achieve and see yourself in colour as that person and trust me if you have fire in your belly and a total belief of mind,heart and spirit you will be successful in real life. Path to success will open up. Dr Ambedkar advised us to educate, unite and agitate( ie to organise ouselves to fight for our cause/mission). My family are staunch followers of Dr Ambedkar and his mission. Our family has produced an MP, IAS officer, lawyer, scientist, teachers,social workers and successful businessmen. All within two generation – all because Dr Ambedkar advised us to educate. This has opened all the doors and created opportunities for advancement. The only limit now is your imagination and belief.
May 8, 2012 at 7:54 am
Absolutely, education is the key…….
May 9, 2012 at 4:42 am
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December 4, 2012 at 5:32 am
True teaching of Guru Ravidass, Nanak and Kabir
1. Never covet anything, either of body or wealth: take not of another. God is the giver of all things, as your trust is in Him so shall you receive.
2. When asked what you are, declare thyself a Sadh, speak not of caste, nor engage in controversy, hold your faith, put not your hope in men.
3. Never eat nor drink intoxicating substances, nor chew pan, nor smell perfume, nor smoke tobacoo, nor chew nor smell opium, hold not up your hands, bow not your head in the presence of idols or of men.
How many of these do do actually follow?
April 14, 2013 at 4:09 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Light_Infantry
June 12, 2013 at 11:52 pm
Satt naam Wahe guru..
.jai guru ravidass G”
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December 15, 2013 at 12:30 pm
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September 5, 2014 at 9:51 am
Nepal government doesn’t know about Harijan (Chamar community) .The Students and our political Leaders have very less information of it and we are feeling difficult to cop with neplease Dalit leaders for our identification ,Actually nepal dalit people were dalit because of their profession and they are commenting that they have to make capitalistc business Like Chamar can Engage in shoe Manufacturing,From skinning of Death animals they can benifit by exporting ,Band can be improved, Dom can go to mass production and linked to Kathmandu Market ,Entrepreneurship skills need to be developed ,Engage in Weekly Trading etc..My question is that what we can do because we chamar were about 38.2%(in terai region) i m not agree with this decission .what we can do?Actually you expert sir need to held national level program for identification. my contact no.9807278276;9845818298.PDRC(professional development and rearch centre) office no.014277496,Email ID :nabinram22@gmail.com
March 15, 2015 at 6:06 am
GURU KAKKAYA
Shrikar Chamar from Ujjain came to meet Basaveshwar at Kalyan(today’s basavkalyan-karnataka)In the first meeting Basaveshwar called him as “Bri dhor halli Kakkayya”. And from dat time shrikar is known as Kakkayya in all sharana.He accept veershaiv dharm.Basaveshwar reunite the veershaiv dharm which is real dharm of bahuian.by this Basveshwar seperated bahujan people from vedic dharm.Basaveshwar have mentioned kakkayya in his hymns.Son of Haralayya chamar got married to the daughter of Maduyya brahmin with thr help of Basaveshwar and kakkayya.And from that event revolution took placed.‘Kaykave kailas’ means work is worship/heaven,saidby Basaveshwar.He opposed ved,varnashram.In this movement kakkayya n harlayya were with Basaveshwar.When Basaveshwar went to kudal sangam Kakkayya fought with king Bijjwal for the safty of sharana.And kakkayya sacrified his life.It happened at kakkeri,karnataka where his grave is there.Chamar(dhor) people visit this place on Mahashivratri at birth anniversary of Kakkayya.
Chamar are also known as dhor kakkayya in few part of karnataka and maharashtra.
GURU HARALAYYA
In 12 th century
Haralayya chamar lived with his wife Kalyanamma in the ‘untouchables’ settlements of Kalyana town, where he followed the trade of shoemaking. Once Basava came to Untouchables Street and had puja and lunch in Haralayya’s house, while departing Haralayya greeted politely with the formal salutation “Sharanu” , Basava replied to his greeting by saying “Sharanu Sharanarthi”. The untouchable chamar was struck dumb with surprise that he was treated so courteously by the treasurer of the king. He told his wife that he had committed a terrible sin, since Basava had answered his single greeting with a double salutation and he had not showed his gradituted for this great act of humility. Haralayya and his wife decided thereupon to prepare a special fight for Basava. They cut each a piece of skin from their thighs, tanned it and made from it a beautiful pair of shoes. (The nearly 800-year-old chappals were kept almost intact in a specially-constructed small temple at Bijanall village, in Sedam Taluka, Gulbarga District Karnataka State.) Haralayya called upon Basava in order to present him with the shoes; but Basava surprised and put the chappals on his head and told that “shoe made by Sharanas skin GOD only can wear it” and returned it back.
On his way back to home, Haralayya met a certain Brahmana named Madhuvarasa (or Madhuvayya) was a minister at the court of king Bijjala. Madhuvarasa saw the beautiful shoes and wanted to buy them. When the Haralayya refused, the shoes were snatched from him by the servants of the Brahmana. Madhuvarasa , however, did not enjoy his new acquisition for very long; because when he put on the shoes, he was immediately smitten by leprosy. His illness became unbearable after some time, but fortunately he had a maid-servant who was a pious Lingayat devotee. She went to Haralayya and fetched water from her master’s bath from the shoemaker’s tank. When Madhuvarasa bathed in this water, he was cured at once. This convinced him of the truth of Lingayat and he underwent the Ishtalinga Deeksha. Moreover, he offered to bring about reconciliation. Such a marriage of a Brahmana girl with an untouchable boy was strictly forbidden in religious law. It was considered to be ‘Pratiloma’ which means literally ‘stroking against the hair’. Bhasaweswara performed the marriage of Sheelavantha, son of a chamar Haralayya, with a Brahmin girl, Lavanya , daughter of Madhavarsa, disregarding massive opposition and resentment from the upper caste elders. Consequently, the reaction to this marriage was very strong. Both fathers were arrested and condemned to death by king Bijjala; bridegroom were blinded and then executed in the “elahootte’ punishment: they were chained to the leg of an elephant and then dragged to death along the streets of the town. The three men named Jagadeva, Mallaya, and Bommayya used the situation and killed the king Bijjala. All Lingayat devotees left kalyana and took refuge in several distant places.
In karnataka chamar are called as Haralayya
May 7, 2015 at 2:49 am
SHAIVISM-BUDDHISM-SIKHISM-RAVIDASIA.
All bahujan were Shaiv…followers of shiv-shakti…Shiva is non vedic deity. He is adiyogi means first buddh purush. He alwyas opposed ved,yadnya n varna system. He has given 112 meditation techniques. All meditation belongs to him. Ardhanarishwar shows the equality betwn men n women. Man n woman is incomplete without each other. In shaivism Shivlinga is worshiped,which is symbol of creation (reproduction). But vedic (brahmin,kshatriya,vaishya) hijack Shiva n make him vedic deity.
Now shaiv are called as hindu. Actuly vedic are not hindu.they are different. . They dont worship idol. They only worship fire n yadna. In vedas idol worshiping is not permited.
Even though vedic become priest only for Dakshina n to take command on shaiv. They dont call themselvs hindu/shaiv. But called vedic sanatani. So from now keep in mind that we are shaiv (now called as hindu) n vedics are diff.
In India charmkar of diff states are of diff culture n follows diff sect n faith. Ex. Shaivism,buddhism,sikhism,ravidasia. In southern states charmkar (called as dhor kakkayya,haralayya,machigar etc) follows Shaivism. Our charmkar guru Haralayya n guru Kakkayya were from this sect. They were followers of guru Basaveshwar. In north India like punjab n Haryana, the charmkar (called as chamar,jatav,ravidasia) are from Sikh sect. Now they have formed their own religion called Ravidasia,on teaching of charmkar guru Ravidas. On this there is impact of sikhism. In UP Bihar charmkar (called as chamar,jatav,mochi etc) follows teachings of guru Ravidas n Buddhism. Maharashtra is the state in which charmkar (called as chambhar,dhor,harale etc) follows shaivism with that they follows guru Ravidas. We hav to be proud of that our charmkar people are in all these sects.
Infact shaivism,buddhism,sikhism,ravidasia hav same philosophy.
I want to say that charmkar from north & south have to share their diff sects n culture n try to know history of each other. And unite the charmkar community.
Our salutation
Jai Gurudev
(Ravidas.Kakkayya.Haralayya)
May 7, 2015 at 2:51 am
Marna sikh lo jine ki azadi mil jayeggi
February 27, 2016 at 3:33 am
Where is salhan gothre jathere near hoshiarpur
April 13, 2016 at 10:39 pm
I am a Sikh and I am very saddened that you guys have decided to split from the Sikh Panth. I hate casteism, it’s a symptom of the disease of ego and pride. Guru Ji wanted us all to come together united as One people and One faith but it seems casteist elements have returned and this is the result, supposedly “lower-caste” Sikhs leaving Sikhi for other religions. Just know that there are many true Sikhs who follow the Guru and do not follow caste, I will happily give my own daughter’s hand in marriage to any Sikh regardless of their caste. I hope the new generation of Sikhs can revive the true teachings of the Guru and purge the SGPC and Akaal Takht of corruption and casteism. I will always be willing to lend a helping hand to anyone following the Ravidassia religion as a Sikh, god bless you all.
February 14, 2018 at 3:32 pm
Only some people have not all. Guru Granth Sahib still sits in Guru Ravidass Temples. I agree with you on all of your pints. However the caste nonsense will only go away if intermarriages happen on a grand scale but has now started happening.
September 20, 2018 at 10:04 am
so you have left guru granth sahib ji? so you created a different religion basically which is your choice and ok but its important to stress you are not sikh anymore so other population is not mislead? i am not ravidassia but had been attending a ravidas gurdwara with no clue that it wasn’t a sikh gurdwara.
March 14, 2021 at 3:29 pm